Below are all the emails that John O'Neill sent to me after hiring him to do the Kenny Research in Counties Wicklow and Wexford. This is very lengthy but contains so much valuable information from which I drew many conclusions from. Before hiring John, I locked down several things, but John's reports helped me with the following: Confirming already known facts, helping put together various Kennystown families, including our direct family, explanations of which plots they all lived on at various years, and locating other family names that I did not know about.
There are at least 2 other large emails like this one that I have from 2 ladies in Ottawa, that are researching the exact same area of Wicklow and Wexford, but since I did not pay John for their reports, I will not post them here, though I did place a couple emails from John to one of them because John gave her permission to send them to me.
There is a brief mention of my County Louth relations, Connor and Hoey early in these reports, but other than that, it is all Wexford / Wicklow. Each email is a separate color, and I highlighted many of the (for sure our) Kenny things in Bold or in RED
In my opinion, in most of John's emails below, it seemed to me that he was actually trying to disprove that Thomas Kenny and Eleanor Purcell were related to the Kennys in Kennystown, but as his research was nearly finished, he also concurred that Thomas was originally from there and indeed a son on Batt Kenny and Anne Breen. It was originally questioned because the Kennystown Kennys seemed to all have land and prospered some, while the Thomas in Motabower had no land and was living as a laborer on some Protestants land. If all the other Kennys had land why not Thomas? We concluded that he was either a black sheep or had left for some time and returned with no worth. Just a note here that Kennystown and Motabower are literally, across the path from each other, except Kennystown is in Wicklow and Motabower is in Wexford.
Hi JOE March 2006
Thanks for sending fee. If you sent just less than the 300 EURO that will be fine. You are allowed take out the charge if you think its too much. But I think I may need the number on the receipt and your address. One or both in order to collect. I will try just with your name and by name and address and see if that works. I have a preliminary report for you below and I also have some photocopies to send when I have your address. I made a search for your Connor/Hoey connections but as indicated I did not spend to much time on that. The RC register is very badly faded.
I have cleared up below what I know so far about the KENNYS and will now go to various MSS and see what I can find.
11th April 2006
The CONNOR and HOEY family were baptised in RC parish known as DROMISKEEN but this parish is actually named DARVER Pos. 5596 in the NLI.
I found some things but there is a bit of confusion :
PATRICK CONNOR did marry ELIZABETH HOEY 15th Oct. 1839 witnessed by RICHARD McCARTNEY and MARY CARROLL.
I found 5 children plus another two children wrongly listed under JOHN CONNOR instead of PATRICK CONNOR :
MARY ANN CONNOR bapt. 4th August 1841
sp: Mathew Cavanagh and MARY CONNORS
LAWRENCE CONNOR baptised 7th March 1847
but listed as son of JOHN CONNOR and BETTY HOEY
sp: PATRICK HOEY and ANNE CONNOR
JOHN CONNOR baptised 9th April 1848
but listed as son of JOHN CONNOR and BETTY HOEY
sp: John McGahan and MARY HOEY
PATRICK CONNOR baptised 11th Nov. 1850
sp: Michael McCartney and MARGARET HOEY
MICHAEL CONNOR baptised 15th Feb. 1857
sp: Frances McGuire and Bridget Reilly
ELIZABETH CONNOR bapt. 13th March 1859
sp: Andrew McGinnis and Anne Lamb
JAMES CONNOR bapt. 1st Sept. 1861
sp: Patrick Hughes and Judith Corrigan.
This register has a transcript and the original is very faded in parts.I could not find any ELIZABETH HOEY as a daughter of a MICHAEL but did find MARY HOEY bapt. 26th August 1814 the daughter of MICHAEL HOEY and MARY BELTON sp: PATRICK HOEY and Bridget Kinnehan. I presume this is the sister of ELIZABETH HOEY as you state that your ELIZABETH HOEY is a daughter of a MICHAEL HOEY. I did find an ELIZABETH HOEY bapt. in Dec. 1810 (day missing) dau. of THOMAS HOEY and BRIDGET RICE of BABISWOOD alias BABSWOOD. Sp: Patrick Hillard and Catherine McGuire.
I made copies of TITHE APPLOTMENTS for posting : PARISH OF DROMISKEEN dated 1833. Obviously in 1833 Elizabeth HOEY and PATRICK CONNOR were not married and unlikely to be referred to in 1833 :
The PATRICK CONNOR named below is not the one who married ELIZABETH HOEY.
TOWNLAND OF DROMISKEEN ;
PATRICK HOEY 1 rod
WILLIAM HOEY 1 ace 3 rod 32 perch
MICHAEL CONNOR 7 acres 2 rod 10 perch
TOWNLAND of LURGAN and MOORETOWN :
PATRICK CONNOR 11 acres 20 perch.
PATRICK HOEY 1 acre.
TOWNLAND of LINNS ;
JOHN HOEY 9 acres
PAYRICK HOEY 9 acres 14 perch.
TOWNLAND of WALTERSTOWN ;
RICHARD CONNOR 6 acres 3 rod 20 perch.
No CONNORs or HOEY in BABSWOOD and no reference to any townland called CULLENSTOWN (at least not in the TITHES for DROMISKEEN).
Before trying to determine what if any connection THOMAS KENNY has to KENNYSTOWN we should determine whats definitely known about him other than the emigration record.
The townland of MOTYBOWER is just beside KILCAVAN and no reason therefore to doubt that THOMAS KENNY could be related to those in what became known as KENNYSTOWN.
KENNYSTOWN as a name occurs very late and I only see it firstly in 1808. In an older MSS dating from 1728 with MAPS I see KILCAVAN but no KENNYSTOWN.KENNYSTOWN is in fact a small part of KILCAVAN and I think once a number of KENNYS got leases in this area it became known as KENNYSTOWN.
We first see THOMAS KENNY listed in the MS. 6082 (Pos. 8564 NLI) rentals but he only appears firstly in 1839 and no sign of him previous to that. He is listed a MOTYBOWER in co.WEXFORD living in the following plot :
JOHN and ROBERT ROACH on 39 acres 2 rod 1 perch.
WILLIAM ROACH 1803 aged 36 and his wife 1805 31. On 19 acres 1 rod with 3 sons and 5 daughters living with them.
THOMAS ROACH 1798 aged 41 and his wife1804 aged 35 on 19 acres 1 rod with 4 sons and 2 daughters living with them.
JOSEPH ROACH 1799 aged 40 and his wife 1799 aged 40 living with 1 son and 1 dau. He was a TAILOR.
THOMAS KENNY 1799 aged 40 with his wife 1814 aged 25 (no land) living with 1 son and referred to as a SHOEMAKER.
(ALL these ROACH emigrated. For that reason THOMAS KENNY changed plots in the same townland of MOTYBOWER between 1840 and 1847).
He appears again in 1848 and 1850 in the same townland of MOTYBOWER but this time he is living on the plot of ROBERT CONNORS aged 54 with his wife aged 66. They lived on 8 acres 2 rod 28 perch. They had one daughter with them in 1848 and 4 male and 1 female servants/relatives.
THOMAS KENNY aged 43 with his wife aged 35 with a HOUSE and YARD (NO LAND). They had 4 sons living with them in 1848 and THOMAS KENNY was referred to as a LABOURER.
In 1850 THOMAS KENNY gave his age as 47 and his wife as 37. He was only on a HOUSE and KITCHEN GARDEN. They also had 4 sons living with them in 1850.
From this we can determine that THOMAS KENNY was born c. 1803 (most ages given agree with this year) with one age giving a possible date of 1799.
His wife ELLEN PURCELL was born c. 1814.
There is a gap in the TOMACORK register from 1797 to 1807 so not much hope in knowing exactly if THOMAS KENNY was born to anyone in KENNYSTOWN alias KILCAVAN.
There is nobody called PURCELL in the TOMACORK area and I believe ELLEN PURCELL was daughter of one of many PURCELL found to the west of MOTYBOWER in WEXFORD.This area has very sketchy records. MOTYBOWER is actually covered by the KILRUSH and ASKAMORE RC register which only starts in 1841 with baptisms ( no marriages and has a gap).
The RENTALS of 1827 show the following KENNYS living in KILCAVAN :
PLOT ONE :
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY on 19 acres 1 rod.
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 1778 aged 49 in 1827 with his wife Nancy Farrell 1785 aged 42 with 3 sons and 4 daughters with them in 1827.
He was a farmer in 1827 on 19 acres but also called a QUARRYMAN in 1839.
ELIZABETH KENNY aged 59 1768
JOHN KENNY aged 46. 1781
PLOT TWO :
JAMES before 1745- before 1827 and BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 1767 on 34 acres 10 perch BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 1767 aged 60 and his wife aged 57 1770 Anne Breen on 4 acres with 3 sons and 3 daughters. He was called a MASON.
RICHARD KENNY 1795 aged 32 with his wife aged 20. On 11 acres. A labourer and farmer.
THOMAS KENNY(1769 aged 58 and his wife aged 1767 60. On 11 acres. They had 2 daughters with them in 1827. He was a farmer.
PHILIP KENNY aged 24 and his wife aged 22. They had 4 acres and 2 daughters lived with them in 1839. He was a LABOURER.
(in 1839 PHILIP KENNY aged 34 and his wife aged 32 lived here on 5 acres 3 rod with THOMAS BALF aged 36 and his wife Sarah Kenny 1811 aged 28 on 11 acres 2 rod living beside him. They had 3 daughters with them in 1839 and he was called a LABOURER. I would think therefore that the wife of THOMAS BALF was a daughter of THOMAS KENNY or BARTHOLOMEW KENNY.If this is the case then your THOMAS KENNY may be also a son of either BARTHOLMEW KENNY or THOMAS KENNY. But I think he is more likely to be a son of the other BARTHOLOMEW KENNY born c. 1778. I could find no children for THOMAS KENNY senior though he is referred to below as a sponsor in 1794 for child of BARTHOLOMEW).
PLOT TREE :
PHILIP KENNY c. 1890 prob. son of Philip c.1769 Sr. now EDWARD BALF on 50 acres.
WIDOW KENNY 1770 aged 57 on 1 acre. This is probably DOROTHY KENNY Philip seniorís wife. With one daughter with her in 1827.
Even though KENNYSTOWN is not referred to in the rentals in 1827 and 1839 you can take it that these KENNYS were living in what was known as KENNYSTOWN.
As you can see from above and below :
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY born c.1778 (had 3 sons).Must have married NANCY FARRELL.
JOHN KENNY born c.1781
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY born c. 1767 (had 3 sons). Must have married ANN BREEN.
RICHARD KENNY born c. 1795 bro to Thomas, 1794
RICHARD KENNY born pre. 1774.
THOMAS KENNY born c.1769. Married with 2 daughters but none known. May have had sons during 1797-1808?
PHILIP KENNY born c.1803.
PHILIP KENNY senior dead before 1827.Must have married a DOROTHY ?
WILLIAM KENNY born pre. 1772. Married ELEANOR FREE.
PHILIP KENNY born pre.1772.Married ELIZABETH FREE.
THOMAS KENNY born 1794 .Must have married MARY BYRNE. Brother to Richard 1775
PATRICK KENNY born 1790s.Married BETTY KENNY.
PETER KENNY born 1790s.Married HANNAH MURPHY.
JAMES KENNY born pre. 1802. Married BIDDY GREEN.
PHILIP KENNY born pre.1790. Married ANN KELLY. Son Richard 1816
THOMAS KENNY born c. 1803. Married ELEANOR PURCELL. Is this THOMAS KENNY son of THOMAS KENNY brother of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY or is he son of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY who married NANCY FARRELL and had 3 sons after 1799 ?
We see these appear under KILCAVAN in the TOMACORK REGISTER and also after 1807 we see KENNYSTOWN name appear.
ROSE bapt. 5th Feb. 1793 the dau. of
PHILIP KENNY and ELIZABETH FREE
sp: PHILIP KENNY and JANE FREE.
ELIZABETH bapt. 30th March 1794 the dau. of
WILLIAM KENNY and ELEANOR FREE
sp: PHILIP KENNY and MARY KEAGHOE
HANNAH KENNY bapt. 9th Nov. 1796 the dau. of same
sp: BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and SARAH KENNY
THOMAS bapt. 5th August 1794 the son of possibly married MARY BYRNE 16th Oct. 1812
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and ANN BREEN
sp: THOMAS KENNY and ELIZABETH KINSELLA.
RICHARD KENNY bapt. 8th ? or 18th June 1795 the son of same
sp: WILLIAM and SARAH KENNY
NOTE BENE :
This THOMAS KENNY appears to have married MARY BYRNE
16th Oct. 1812
wit : ANDREW KEHOE and MARY FURLONG
(THIS IS WHERE THE GAP APPEARS IN REGISTER TOMACORK BETWEEN 1797 and 1808)
FIRST REFERENCE TO KENNYSTOWN OCCURS IN 1808 below ;
CATHERINE bapt. 16th August 1808 the dau. of
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and ANNE BRIEN alias BREEN.
sp: PHILIP KENNY and MARY CLARK
(it seems strange that this couple would continue to have children between 1794 and 1808 but I suppose 14 years
is not all that strange if they had children every year or ever second year).
PHILIP KENNY married 11th August ? 1811 to ANN KELLY
wit : PATRICK KENNY and PATRICK NEIL of KILCAVAN.
MARY bapt. 12th March 1812 the dau. of
PHILIP KENNY and ANNE KENNY
sp: James Byrne and Dorothy Kelly of KENNYSTOWN.
DENNIS DEEGAN married CATHERINE KENNY c.1792 12th Nov. 1812 ?
wit : Paddy Murhpy and Mart.Kehoe of KENNSYTOWN.
WILLIAM DEEGAN alias DEIGAN bapt. 7th Sept. 1813 the son of
DENIS DEEGAN and CATHERINE KENNY
sp: RICHARD and ELIZABETH KENNY of KENNYSTOWN.
PATRICK DEEGAN bapt. 12thMarch 1816 sp: John Doyle and Mary KENNY
son of same. of KENNYSTOWN.
BIDDY DEEGAN bapt. 16th July 1819 dau. of same.
sp; John Doyle and MARY KENNY of KENNYSTOWN.
PETER KENNY married HANNAH MURPHY 24th Dec? 1812
wit : ANDY KEOHOE and NELLY BOLGER
PATRICK KENNY bapt. 28th July 1815 the son of
PETER KENNY and HANNA MURPHY sp;
James KENNY and Mary KENNY of KENNSYTOWN. Could this James be 1767 Bartholomewís parents?
MARY bapt. 21st May 1815 the dau. of
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and NANCY FARRELL
sp : James and Sally Byrne of KILCAVAN
BIDDY KENNY bapt. 4th May 1817 dau. of same
sp: James Byrne and Judy Rourke.
RICHARD KENNY bapt. 18th Jan. 1816 on of
PHILIP KENNY and ANNE KELLY
sp : JOHN and JANE KEHOE. of KILCAVAN.
PATRICK KENNY c.1797 married 18th ? Feb. 1817 to BETTY KENNY c 1798
wit : BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and MARY KENNY of KENNYSTOWN.
MARY bapt. 17th Feb. 1820 the dau. of
PATRICK KENNY and BETTY KENNY
sp: PATRICK KENNY and Peggy Doyle of KENNYSTOWN.
JOHN DOYLE bapt. 4th July 1821 the son of
JOHN DOYLE and MARY KENNY spons Biddy, dau of DENIS DEEGAN/ CATHERINE KENNY
sp: Patrick Murphy and ANN KENNY of KENNYSTOWN.
JAMES KENNY c 1800 married 21st Jan. 1823 to BIDDY GREEN
wit : Catherine Walsh and Biddy Kealy of KENNYSTOWN.
Thanks for recent emails in regard to KENNYS and MAPS. I have compiled two reports I call KENNY 1 and KENNY 2 and I am sending BOTH in this email together. The first one deals with whats available on KENNYS and PURCELLS in north WEXFORD and the 2nd is what I found in various records on Kennys in KENNYSTOWN. Some of it may be good news but I would warn against jumping to conclusions but you know enough about Motybower and Kennystown yourself to draw your own conclusions. I will try and see if the 1842 Fiztwilliam estate maps show anything in regard to MOTYBOWER but I think THOMAS KENNY lived in two different houses on two different farms between 1830s and 1850 and even then he had no land of any kind.
12th April 2006
You have to be VERY careful in regard to family genealogy and especially avoid latching unto the wrong connections. I did this years ago when information from my grandfather indicated a JAMES O'NEILL was my ancestor except it turned out he was one of two JAMES O'NEILLs from the same place in Dublin originating out of the same place in Wicklow but one was mine and the other was not. You have the same problem. You think THOMAS KENNY fits in with Kennys of Kennystown but I suspect your THOMAS KENNY is not from that crowd (but I am as baffled as yourself). For example both of the BARTHOLOMEW KENNYS in KENNYSTOWN were farmers and masons and quarrymen. They most certainly were not labourers or shoemakers. They also had small plots of land to farm. In the case of your THOMAS KENNY not only was he a labourer /shoemaker but he did not even have one perch of land and the houses he lived in were controlled either by the ROCHE alias ROACH family and later by the CONNORS. So basically it seems to me highly unlikely that either of the BARTHOLOMEW KENNYS would allow their sons to end up in that position.
MOTYBOWER townland comes in many different spellings. It is MOLABOUR in 1728-33 and also MOUNTABOWER later. This area is covered by the KILRUSH and ASKAMORE RC parish register Pos. 4251 NLI.
Strangely I now see that ASKAMORE part of this register only has baptisms for 1841-42 !! MOTYBOWER is referred to during these years but then not referred to again. This has to be the worst register I have ever come across. I extracted everything to do MOTYBOWER which did not take long as you can imagine.
SALLY BIRCH bapt. 10th April 1842 the dau. of JOSEPH BIRCH and MARY DORAN
sp: THOMAS PURCIL and ANNE KENNY
SALLY FREEMAN bapt. 10th April 1842 the dau. of JAMES FREEMAN (protestant) and MARY DOYLE ( catholic)
sp: John Doyle and Suzan Keogh.
Also occurs again but this time dated 13th dec. 1841 with THOMAS DOYLE as sponsor.
ANNE GIBSON bapt. 12th April 1842 the dau. of George Gibson and Catherine Murphy
sp: John Hickey and Mary Murphy
BALLYCURRAN alias BALLYCORDAN
ANNE KENNY bapt. 26th March 1841 the dau. of DAVID KENNY and CATHERINE PRICE
sp: DENIS KENNY and BRIDGET KENNY
BALLYELLIS ( possibly?)
MICHAEL KENNY bapt. 6th June 1842 the son of DANIEL KENNY and ANN KINSELA
sp: ANNE KENNY
MOATY BOWER (this spelling) is referred to in the TITHE APPLOTMENTS of 1824 and as you can see no KENNYS or PURCELLS present ; This townland consists of 197 acres 25 perch and THOMAS KENNY did not even have one perch of it ??
William, John and Robert ROACH (THOMAS KENNY lived with these in 1839) Thomas CROFTS Patrick McDANIEL Robert and Thomas CONNORS (THOMAS KENNY lived with these in 1848-50) Patrick CARROLL James SMITH Judy LOUGHLIN Isaac FOSTER Lawreence LAMB James LAMB John and Joseph PRESTLY James MURPHY
In MS 6030 we also have a list dated 1812 ;
JOHN WHITES undertenants for the half year ending LADY DAY 1812:
LAWRENCE LAMB and JOHN DOYLE
JOHN and ROBERT PRESTLY
JOHN ROCHE JUNIOR
JOHN ROCHE SENIOR
ROBERT and WILLIAM ROCHE.
So in the time that THOMAS KENNY was living here this is all that was recorded in KILRUSH & ASKAMORE RC register which is peculiar and therefore I donít think either the marriage or the childrenís baptisms were recorded anywhere or if they were the records were destroyed or are not on film. But there is no sign of it existing in local custody for pre. 1841.
The only record that replaces this non-existent parish record is the TITHE APPLOTMENTS which are dated 14th dec. 1824. Thankfully this shows who was present in 1824.
PARISH OF ROSSMINOGE: (south east of Carnew)
BALYREGAN TOWNLAND (south east of Carnew)
PATRICK KENNY 35 acres
THOMAS KENNY 35 acres
THOMAS KENNY 22 acres 32 perch
MILES KENNY 22 acres
LOWER ISLAND TOWNLAND
MICHAEL KENNY 1 acre 3 rod
DAVID KENNY 24 acres 3 rod
JAMES KENNY 13 acres 14 perch
PARISH of KILNAHUE
LAURENCE KENNY 4 acres
GLANCLORAN alias GLANDORAN
PATRICK KENNY 31 acres 2 rod 33 perch
PARISH OF KILCOMB
CARRIGGLEGAN (South of Carnew)
THOMAS KENNY 7 acres 1 rod 8 perch
MILES KENNY 7 acres 1 rod 8 perch
PURCELLS alias PURCILS
PARISH OF KILNAHUE
PATRICK PURCELL 5 acres and 4 acres 3 rod
BALLALUSK alias BALLYLUSK and KNOCKNAGOPPLE EDWARD PURCILL 5 acres and 6 acres in BALLYLUSK EDWARD PURCILL 9 acres KNOCKNAGOPPLE
LAWRENCE and MICHAEL PURCELL both on 15 acres each.
PARISH OF ROSSMINOGE
CLONAMONA (SE of Carnew)
LAURENCE PURSIL 12 acres
DAVID PURSIL 10 acres 2 rod
WALTER PURSIL 2 acres 2 rod
WALTER PURSIL 1 rod
I am sure you have some kind of map showing the road from GOREY to CARNEW. Along this road and just north and south of it you will find the following townlands (referred to above) and this means THOMAS KENNY and ELLEN PURCELL lived close to each other in this area and probably had nothing to do with KENNYSTOWN:
As you can see you have ADULT KENNY males named THOMAS, DAVID, MILES, PATRICK, LAURENCE, DAVID, etc, and you have many PURCELLS. In my opinion your THOMAS KENNY has to be a son of one of these KENNYS . Probably son of one of the THOMAS KENNYS named above but unfortunately without a parish register there is no way of knowing who are the parents of ELLEN PURCELL and who are the parents of THOMAS KENNY but I would think they met in CARNEW or GOREY or somewhere along this road linking both towns. I personally advise that you should give up thinking that your THOMAS KENNY belongs to those in KENNYSTOWN. You should not pay too much attention to the names Bartholomew , etc. Many people had those first names used by the Kennys in Kennystown.
12th April 2006
If you prefer to think your THOMAS KENNY belongs to the KENNYSTOWN crowd (which is very possible based on what has been found below) then this report outlines what is known about them outside of the parish register and rentals Ms. 6082.
Firstly understand that KILCAVAN was leased originally in the 18th century to protestants called KEMPSTON and HUME who died before 1808. This was lucky for the KENNYS and other Catholics living in KILCAVAN because it gave them the chance to get a LEASE from the FITZWILLIAM ESTATE. All of the KENNYS and others got their leases in 1808 and had nothing before then on lease.
The earliest KENNY I can see is a MOEG or MOAG or MORG KENNY (inky blot on third letter: probably short for MORGAN KENNY) with a wife and 3 daughters an undertentenant of Mr. WATERHOUSE c. 1728-33. So I think the Kennys who eventually gathered in KENNYSTOWN part of KILCAVAN are all probably descended from this MORG. KENNY. He had 3 daughters in c. 1728-33 but probably had sons after that date.
Also here was :
all with families.
MS. 4944 dated c. 1728-33 also describes the area ;
LORD MALTONS ESTATE
1. WATERHOUSE HOLDINGS 447 acres
2. WRIGHTS HOLDING 138 acres
3. PARKMORE PAGES HOLDING 87 acres 2 rod
On this land is a large stoned walled slated house and out houses with orchard and garden and nursery of fine young ash not yet planted out & some enclosures & plantations in the hedges. A slate QUARRY of use to the estate.
On Wrights part a clay & stone walled slated house, small orchard some young trees in the garden not yet planted out & some few about the house.
Parkmore is at present joined to Mr. Waterhouses holding.
MOTYBOWER alias MOLABOUR is also referred to in c. 1728 under JOHN JERVIS WHITE and the only undertenants of his named are JOHN BYRNE and PHELIM NEIL (FEIDLIMIDH O NEILL) and 6 others not named.
When the LEASES were granted in 1808 to KENNYS and others the lease was always constructed as follows :
INDENTURE BETWEEN THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM WENTWORTH EARL OF FITZWILLIAM AND RIGHT HON. CHARLES WILLIAM WENTWORTH FITZWILLIAM COMMONLY CALLED VISCOUNT MILTON THE SON AND HEIR OF THE SAID EARL OF THE FIRST PART AND ...................................WHEREBY THE SAID EARL AND VISCOUNT MILTON APPOINTS DEMISES AND GRANTS UNTO SAID ............. ALL THAT DWELLING HOUSE TENEMENTS AND ALSO ALL THOSE SEVERAL CLOSES INCLOSURES OR PARCELS OF INCLOSED LAND ARABLE MEADOW AND PASTURE GROUND THERETO BELONGING PART OF THE LANDS OF ......................... CONTAINING WITH THE SOIL UNDERNEATH THE BUILDINGS ACCORDING TO A SURVEYED ADMEASUREMENT THEREOF LATELY MADE BY MR. CALEB BROOKSBAND...........................( BE THE SAME MORE OR LESS) WHICH SAID PREMISES WERE ( AMONGST OTHER TENEMENTS) LATE IN LEASE TO................. AND SINCE TO ........................ AND ARE NOW IN THE POSSESSION TENURE HOLDING OR OCCUPTATION OF SAID ................... TOGETHER ETC . TO HOLD FROM .................... FOR AND DURING THE NATURAL LIFE OF ..................... FOR 21 YEARS TO RUN THEREWITH AT AND UNDER THE NONRESIDENCE RENT OR SUM OF #................... and #...........TO PLANT ........ FOREST AND ............... APPLETREES. LIBERTY TO COPICE .................
If you add the following names and conditions to this LEASE then you get what all those at KILCAVAN received as proof of lease :
WILLIAM KENNY 29th August 1808
Part of KILCAVAN
13 acres 1 rod 39 perch
late in lease to Nicholas Kempston and William Hume both deceased.
In the LIFE of HANNAH KENNY 4th daughter of WILLIAM KENNY then aged 10 years old.
#15 residence and #10 to plant 100 forest trees and 20 apple trees.
Liberty to copice one acre.
PHILIP, HENRY and WILLIAM KENNY ( All brothers. Called brothers in Ms. 6030 dated 1811-1813)
26th August 1808
All of KILCAVAN farmers
50 acres 2 rod 37 perch.
Late in lease to KEMPSTON and HUME.
In the LIFE of ROBERT ROCHE 1802 youngest son of ROBERT ROCHE c. pre 1785 of MOTYBOWER, Co.Wexford,now 6 years old. (in MS.6030
dated 1811-1813 it states opposit the ROCHE names =" Cestu Que Nic Dead").Robert Roche Sr. is dead?
#57 residence and #38 to plant 400 forest and 80 apple trees. Liberty to copice 5 acres.
(note that this is the relationship I mentioned between ROCHE of MOTYBOWER and the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN and later in 1839
we find THOMAS KENNY living with this same ROCHE/ROACH family. So perhaps there is a family relationship or something between them ? This is the only proof I can find, other than that below, that may link the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN to your THOMAS KENNY other than the same first name usage). One of these -Philip, Henry, or Williamís daughter probably married Robert Roach Sr.
JAMES and BARTHOLOMEW KENNY
26th August 1808
BARTHOLOMEW KENNY named as a son of JAMES KENNY both of KILCAVAN
34 acres 10 perch.
Formerly in lease to KEMPSTON and HUME.
In the life of THOMAS KENNY 1799 aged 9 years old the THIRD son of BARTHOLOMEW. wife Farrell?
#37.5.0 residence and #25 to plant 200 forest and 60 apple trees.Liberty to copice 3 acres.
NOTE BENE :
(this is probably the best PROOF that your THOMAS KENNY who was born c. 1803--1799 is the son of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY of KILCAVAN. As he was given an age of 9 years old in 1808 (or "thereabouts") he was born c. 1799. Probably born c.1802-3 I would think as BARTHOLOMEW had two other sons before him. This could not be the THOMAS KENNY born in 1794 as he would be 14 years old in 1808. So the question then is HOW could your THOMAS KENNY , if this is him, have ended up as a labourer and shoemaker in MOTYBOWER with no land of any kind in KENNYSTOWN or KILCAVAN? This must be the BARTHOLOMEW KENNY who married FARRELL ?? Hopefully this is your family because it gives you three generations namely THOMAS son of BARTOLOMEW son of JAMES KENNY. But be careful its not definite proof).
PATRICK SHANNON of KILCAVAN 25 acres 2 rod 38 perch and 17 acres 3 rod 8 perch.
26th August 1808. #31.10.0 residence and #21 to plant 250 forest and 50 apple trees.
In LIFE of ROBERT PAGE the youngest son of JOHN PAGE of PARKMORE.
Its not impossible that PHILIP, HENRY, WILLIAM and BARTHOLMEW KENNY are all brothers and sons of JAMES KENNY ?
Others who got LEASES in KILCAVAN in 1808 were :
JAMES BYRNE (LIFE of LOUGHLIN DEEGAN aged 14 years 2nd son of DENNIS DEEGAN of TOMACORK deceased 1808)
JAMES BYRNE the butcher (LIFE of JAMES BYRNE eldest son of JAMES aged 5 years in 1808)
MATHEW BYRNE (LIFE of MATHEW BYRNE 2nd son of MATHEW aged 6 years in 1808)
MICHAEL BYRNE the elder (LIFE of MICHAEL BYRNE youngest son of MICHAEL aged 6 years in 1808)
JOHN and WILLIAM COLLINS
THOMAS DORAN (LIFE is ROBERT ROCHE son of ROBERT ROCHE of MOTYBOWER)
PETER and JOHN HICKEY
FARRELL KEOGHOE ( LIFE is PAGE)
FRANCIS MURPHY ( LIFE is JOHN SYNNOTT son of JOHN SYNNOTT aged 8 in 1808 of PAULBEGG)
Ms. 6030 dated 1811-1813 gives very similar information on the RENTALS to all that given above without much change.
It does refer to other KENNYS ;
ANNE and JOHN KENNY at MONAGHULLEN in lease for LIFE of JOHN son of JOHN KENNY then 13 years old from 1810.
JAMES KENNY part of RACOT in lease for the LIFE of JAMES KENNY his 2nd son from 1808.
PATRICK KENNY part of AGHOLD in lease to him for LIFE of PETER KENNY aged 12 years old his youngest son from 1808.
THOMAS FREE part of COOLATTIN for life of RICHARD GRAHAM
and WILLIAM FREE part of DEERPARK for the LIFE of HENRY FREE son of THOMAS FREE about 7 years old from 1796.
(these maybe related to the FREEs the KENNYS intermarried with in KILCAVAN).
I will do more on CONNORS and have photocopies to send which I will do soon. I think I should be able to locate definitely where BARTHOLOMEW son of JAMES lived but I wonder why no THOMAS ever took over from them. Your THOMAS was not in KENNYSTOWN at any time but could easily have been living with BATHOLOMEW son of JAMES in 1827 but not named. Naming patterns are not all that definite a guide. There is only so many names you can use if there are tons of children. I would like to think THOMAS son of BARTH son of JAMES is yours. Not impossible he was a black sheep of the family and just dumped out of the house. I would not like to have to do QUARRY or MASON work myself which appears to be what BARTH and JAMES were doing. There was a slate quarry in the area it seems. Perhaps he felt the same as I would and just decided on shoemaking or more likely shoe repair work.
I wont give up. I will see what I can find. Its really a pity he lived in MOTYBOWER of all places as its a mess for records. I will probably do an examination of all the names of 1827 in rentals and see if he falls out living somewhere else.
No problem meeting when in Dublin though some Americans have driven me mad in the past .Organizing meetings and not turning up, etc. One kept me waiting in SHELBOURNE HOTEL for an hour and never turned up !! So be definite if we do at anytime organize it.
Just to answer some of your questions. I am still trying to find more. THOMAS KENNY was not in MOTYBOWER or KILCAVAN or KENNYSTOWN in 1827 which means he was single I suppose and if not of the KENNYSTOWN crowd could have been anywhere between Carnew and Gorey before marriage. When he married he appears to have moved in with the ROACH family. I am surprised he called himself a shoemaker and labourer. I presume he was an agricultural labourer and lived in one of their cabins. But they of course only had a lease as well so did not own anything either. I am surprised the ROACHS of MOTYBOWER who are definitely named on the emigration lists did not interact over in Canada with THOMAS KENNY in some way. They were ROCHE and ROACH by surname. Note; Rocheís were in Camden, Ontario, just N. of Kingston, which was S a ways from Smith Falls.
I know the THOMAS KENNY in MOTYBOWER in 1839 was yours because when he emigrated in 1850s he stated he was from there and thats the only THOMAS KENNY present in 1839 and 1848 and 1850.
JAMES KENNY and BARTHOLOMEW KENNY are named as having lease in 1827 BUT in the case of JAMES KENNY he was dead by 1827. Normally in the rentals the person named on the lease is named even if DEAD because the land is still leased in their name. Sometime it states EXORS. after the name but no need for that in case of JAMES KENNY because his son was also named on the lease and grandson THOMAS.
Dont forget that even though one age given by THOMAS makes him born 1799 at least three other ages place him firmly in 1802-3 period of birth.
I will have a look for JAMES MADDEN.
There are at least three THOMAS KENNY named in CLONMORE register ( not your one) and also one BARTHOLOMEW KENNY married to a NOWLAND early 1820s. Just shows how complicated it can get. These are not yours and nowhere near KENNYSTOWN.
CONNOR/HOEY : Same register as before :In County Louth
If ELIZBATEH HOEY was the daughter of a MICHAEL HOEY then one was bapt. 7th March 1789 son of MICHAEL HOEY and ELIZABETH MAGURIN sp; JAMES DERMOT and CATHERINE FINAGAN ?
If a daughter of THOMAS then there was a THOMAS HOEY bapt.3rd April 1788 the son of JAMES HOEY and CATHERINE McCULLIN.
There are several CONNORs baptised pre. 1800 but no JOHN CONNOR. I suspect that your PATRICK CONNOR was born in DOWN as indicated in your notes.
The CONNORS named as baptised and fathers pre. 1800 are JAMES son of RICHARD 1788 PATRICK son of MATHEW 1789 MARY dau. of THOMAS 1788
I will do that search into other KENNYS. I have been doing another study and I think you probably have to conclude that your THOMAS KENNY is of the THOMAS and MILES KENNY crowd I found in the townlands between GOREY and CARNEW. I donít think anything exists in the way of landlord estate papers for this area but I will have a look.
I have posted to you the other day all the TITHE APPLOTMENTS showing the PURCILS and KENNYS in that area so you make somethign of it. Go by the townland names and write in the PARISH from the emails I sent to you. It would cost a fortune to start copying everything but I got a good few pages for you. Hopefully everyone I mentioned in my emails.
In regard to KENNYS of KENNYSTOWn I think this is the solution :
THOMAS born 1769 and BARTHOLOMEW born 1767 are the son of JAMES KENNY alive in 1808 but dead by 1827.This BARTHOLOMEW KENNY had THOMAS born c. 1794 or a bit later and PHILIP born c. 1803 and RICHARD born c. 1795. We have to take all the ages in the records with a bit of salt. I firmly believe now that this THOMAS married in 1814 and that he is the same one mentioned in the deeds as aged 9 years or thereabouts. In fact I am certain this THOMAS was actually 13 or 14 at that stage. I dont think there is any doubt about this its only the ages given in records that are off putting.
I, (Joe) donít agree with this because it was stated his age was 9 in 1808. If he was born in 1795, he would be 13-14. At that age, you can tell a 14 year old from a 9 year old, if they didnít know his age. John has wanted to disprove this theory even before we hired him. I personally believe he is doing his best to do so. I do think he has sent some invaluable information though.
We then have BATHOLOMEW KENNY born 1778 and his sister ELIZABETH born c. 1768 and then his wife NANCY FARRELL born c. 1785. This means they married after 1805. I would think they probably did not have any sons called THOMAS c. 1799-1803. They did have JOHN in 1819, DOLLY 1824, CATHERINE 1826 and ANNE 1830, etc. The sponsors between 1819 and 1830 were Art Rourke, Ann? Murphy, Frank Connor, Jane Kehoe, Phil. Furlong, Catherine Byrne, Ned Kehoe and Mary Kenny. I see no relationship to any THOAMS KENNY and I think this is unlikely this couple had a child in 1799-1803. I think they married within the gap in the register 1797 and 1807. But more likely around 1805-1807. I (Joe)also think that Nancy F. could have had a child in 1803. she would have only been about 18, though I do believe Thomas is from the James Barth connection.
So I think you should concentrate your efforts on finding out more about the TOWNLANDS that MILES and THOMAS KENNY and perhaps even LAURENCE and PATRICK KENNY were found and emailed before re : GOREY and CARNEW road area. I really think now that these are you KENNY ancestors and not the KENNYSTOWN crowd.
None of these names were EVER used my Thomas. Not one. Therefore, I couldnít disagree with John more regarding this.
I see the name BARTHOLOMEW often and not only amongst Kennys. So dont go by that. You should wonder where the name EDWARD came from ? Dont rely on first name patterns to make connections. My THOMAS O NEILL who married close to KENNYSTOWN in 1821 at MILLAND and amongst his children was a JOSHUA of all names for an O'Neill. Never seen again I might add.
I think I have just about completed my search into your Kennys and Purcells. I could not find anything of interest in the protestant records except an illegitimate THOMAS KENNY born 1809 son of MARY KENNY of PARISH OF FERNS but in CARNEW protestant. This shows what can happen. This THOMAS KENNY would have ben brought up as THOMAS KENNY but his mother was KENNY and not his unknown father !
I have made copies from Brian Cantwells gravestone inscriptions and will post if you resend you address to make it quicker. In these you will be able to make family trees for all the KENNYS from around MOTYBOWER which referred to in the Tithes. The areas covered are Ballyconran,Boley, Knockbrandon, Glascloran, Craanford,Kilcavan, Glandoran and Ballyduff and with the ages given on the stones you can go back into the 1700s. This will be a good replacement for the lack of any records pre. 1841 for this area.
I only located a few PURCELLs like EDWARD PURCELL of BALLYLUSK and his wife LISLEY she died 12th Nov. 1844 aged 87. Also PATRICK PURCELL was a son of EDWARD. And Elizabeth Purcell of Castletown for her husband MICHAEL PURCELL who died 27th Feb. 1844 aged 45. Also MARY PURCELL of BALLINCLAY for her husband MICHAEL PURCELL who died 29th August 1863 aged 50. All at MONASEED.They had children Bridget, Sarah , Mary and Thomas all died between 1868 and 1882.
Certain burials in CARNEW protestant might be of interest :
Robin Dobbs aged 103 ---17th June 1813
Robert Dobbs aged 22 ---18th or 10th Feb. 1817
also baptisms ;
EDWARD son of EDWARD KENNY and ELIZABETH RATHWELL born 2nd Feb. and bapt 11th Feb. 1821. In CARNEW protestant.
WILLIAM born and bapt. and 1st and 14th July 1811 son of WILLIAM and ELIZABETH BALPH. of CARNEW protestant.
This could be BALFE.
I checked also the HOUSE BOOKS for 1845 re : 1853 and THOMAS KENNY not named at MOYYBOWER.What it shows in 1845 when the lists were been drawn up for Griffiths Valuation 1853 is that HENRY HIGGONBOTHOM took over from WILLIAM and THOMAS ROACH and PATRICK CARTON and it states "old destered houses partly down and all in ruinous state". So these appear to be the houses the Roaches and Thomas Kenny lived in before they went. In other words all left ruined.
You can easily check all these MSS etc at the NLI. If in Dublin just go to National Library and ask for readers ticket and also ask for MSS room ticket. You will probably need passport and reason to get to MSS before they give ticket for that. But you should have no problem. The MSS in your search are generally FITZWILLIAM ESTATE MSS. of which there are many in the NLI.
I still have to check MAPS of Fitzwilliam estate for you to locate the area where THOMAS KENNY lived both CONNORS and ROACH plots.
"Joseph A. Kenny" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
< -----Original Message-----
< From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] < Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:34 AM < To: Joseph A. Kenny < Subject: RESEARCH < <
Hi JOE < The older BARTH. was having children with the older BREEN pre. 1797 so it < can only be that the older BARTH was married to the older BREEN as NANCY FARRELL was only born in 1785 or so and only started having children during < the register gap of 1805-6 onwards.
< Hope this makes sense
I am a dope sometimes. I had your address at home but because I thought yourself and ANNE BURGESS were in active contact I decided to send YOUR post to her with your address for reporting to you. There is only one page in it regarding a ROBERT and JOHN DOBBS in CARNEW protestant which she will be interested in. I have asked her to repost as soon as she has copied anything she wants. I should have posted it directly to you but was posting several letters to Canada and USA and decided to pass it through ANNE. Sorry about that. But you may get it quicker if it goes through Canada first ? Thatís my excuse. I promise to wake up soon.
In the post is copies of KENNY gravestones from ASKAMORE, CRAANFORD and another local graveyard close to MOYTBOWER. The name appears as KENNEY also and it appears from what I have seen that this name may be rendered as KENNEDY also. One THOMAS KENNEDY is named on a grave and then his son is called MOSES KENNEY. It actually gives you all the KENNY families for around BOLEY and KNOCKBRANDON, etc, etc, which is a great replacement for that useless RC register especially for the KENNYS. I have no doubt that your THOMAS KENNY comes from this area and these KENNY families. You are very lucky there is so many ages given bringing you back well before 1800. Why THOMAS used BARTH. is anyoneís guess but I think EDWARD KENNY may have come from EDWARD PURCELL as I donít see anyone called EDWARD KENNY either in Tomacork or in the gravestone inscriptions. Not that I remember that is ?
I will have to recheck my notes but I believe the two THOMAS BALFS named in 1839 one on ex-EDWARD BALF land and one on RICHARD KENNY land both were named with 3 daughters. I am not sure if they are two different THOMAS BALFS (they had slightly different ages) or the compiler of the rentals made an error. This is the point in 1839 when all details about MICHAEL HANDRICK and EDWARD BALF other than their names disappear from the rentals and only THOMAS BALF left and the other one under RICHARD KENNY.
To be named with children in 1827 or 1839 ,etc, only means that who was LIVING with them in those years. It does not mean they did not have other children before and after.
If they are given as THOMAS & ELIZABETH KENNY they are generally married and possibly brother and sister in law of the couple but in this case where it appears as THOMAS KENNY and ELIZABETH KINSELLA seperately they would definitely not be married. The only possible solution is that ELIZABETH KINSELLA is a sister of THOMAS or she is just a neighbour.
I think you will find the date written on the side. They are mostly 1824 and 1825.I think I mentioned the date in my email when referring to the names, etc, before I sent off the actual pages from the Tithes. But I will double check. May be able to get the MAP thing done today.
As you probably know all the Roachs and Connors emigrated from Motabower and on one list it states that THOMAS CLARE alias CLEAR is son in law of ROBERT CONNORS aged 57 and BESSY his wife aged 70 and married to REBECCA with 5 children. I have searched again the TOMACORK register and not only is your KENNYs not in it but neither are the ROACHS or CONNORS. But there may be the following connection to KILCAVAN :
BIDDY bapt. 22nd Jan. 1840 to dau. of John Clare and JENNY HART sp: THOMAS CLARE and MARY KASH.
I also forgot to tell you that I tried to find the wife of THOMAS BALF born c. 1810-15 but no sign of her as child of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY or PHILIP or anyone else even though she appears to be sister to Philip or Richard??
Not impossible she is a sister of your THOMAS KENNY but actually not related to the KENNYS of KENNSYTOWN. THOMAS BALFE is the one who was related to EDWARD BALF and by that way connected by way of lease to KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN but not connected by blood. THOMAS BALF may just have been dumped out off the old PHILIP KENNY/EDWARD BALF plots (along with Michael Handrick, etc)and ended up living on RICHARD KENNY plots but that does not mean they are related in anyway.
> Before I tear up all these notes.
> I also found RICHARD KENNY bapt. 18th JAN. 1816 the son of PHILIP KENNY
> and ANN KELLY sp: JOHN and JANE KEHOE
> Location : KILCAVAN.
> This PHILIP maybe brother of RICHARD and THOMAS KENNY.
>I think you have this but in emigration lists 1847 BIDDY SHANNON aged 35
> is named as a cousin of THOMAS BALF who it states has 11 acres from
> RICHARD KENNY at KILCAVAN.THOMAS SHANNON aged 10 is son of BIDDY SHANNON.
> Its strange that RICHARD KENNY would sub let 11 acres to THOMAS BALF as
> Richard Kenny had no lease in 1847.
> Also in MS. 4975 THOMAS KENNY of MOTYBOWER is given as age 48 in 1851 with
> his wife ELLEN aged 35 and they went on GLENLYON with BARTH, JAMES,
> RICHARD, EDWARD and ANNE.
> The names BARTH and JAMES and RICHARD seem to stem from the family at
> KILCAVAN. ANNE could be named after ANNE BREEN KENNY his mother. BARTH
> after his father, JAMES his grandfather and RICHARD his brother.I cannot
> understand the age of this THOMAS KENNY.I suppose 13 years is a big
> difference in age between him and his wife but if his real age is 57 in
> 1851 ( born 1794) then its no wonder he slashed a few good years off.But I
> certainly still cannot be sure who this THOMAS KENNY is but if the naming
> patern in 1847 is anything to go by he must be of the KILCAVAN KENNYS.
> Share anything you want with JOE KENNY
> Hi ANNE
> FROM : JOHN, DUBLIN.
> Thanks for fee which I collected today Tuesday.
> Thankfully the archives are open so I did the search.You already seem to
> have found a bit but I will fill it in further.Hopefully I have found most
> of what you were looking for.
> ROCHE RESEARCH
> I have found the ROCHE or ROACH families at MOTABOWER in the CARNEW COI
> parish register and also in the Marriage Licence Bonds of OSSERY,FERNS
> and LEIGHLIN. I can conclude that no ROCHE of MOTABOWER ever married a
> KENNY and the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN/KILCAVAN/MOTABOWER never changed
> religion to protestant. The ROCHEs are well documented and they mostly
> married with PRESLEY or PRESTLEY, FOSTER, BAYLEY, WARRING, CROFT, BOLGER,
> PEARSE or PIERCE, ROBERTS, SEALY, etc, etc. All of litte use.
> I re-investigated how THOMAS KENNY belonging to JOE KENNY fits in and I
> have concluded the following ( which is probably not new) :
> I think he comes from KILCAVAN:
> JAMES KENNY and BARTHOLOMEW KENNY of KILCAVAN were given a lease at
> KILCAVAN and this was in the LIFE of THOMAS KENNY supposedly born c.1802.
> I am fairly certain this is the genealogy of this family:
> JAMES KENNY BORN pre. 1746
> This JAMES KENNY had two known sons and one of them BARTHOLOMEW was with
> him on the lease of 34 acres 10 perch from Fitzwilliam estate in 1808.
> THOMAS KENNY was named as a LIFE in this lease. JAMES KENNY probably had a
> brother called WILLIAM KENNY.
> THOMAS KENNY born c. 1769
> He was aged 58 in 1827 and his wife was aged 60. He had 11 acres and 2
> daughters living with him in 1827.
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY born c. 1767
> married to ANNE BREEN
> These had 3 sons and 3 daughters
> BARTHOLOMEW was aged 60 in 1827 and his wife was aged 57.They had 4 acres
> and he was a MASON.
> Their known children:
> RICHARD KENNY aged 32 in 1827 with his wife aged 20.
> He had 11 acres in 1827. He may have had one son in 1839 living with him
> but a blob of ink obscures this. This RICHARD KENNY had 17 acres 1 rod in
> 1839.In 1850 RICHARD KENNY had 2 sons 3 daughters and was aged 52 with his
> wife aged 31.
> RICHARD KENNY was bapt. 8th JUNE 1795 sp: WILLIAM and SARAH KENNY.
> PHILIP KENNY aged 24 in 1827 and his wife aged 22.
> They had 4 acres and also had 2 daughters with them in 1827.
> There was an ELLEN KENNY widow living here in 1848 aged 40
> with 5 acres 3 rod and she was gone by 1850.
> There was also an ELLEN KENNY senior aged 56 here in 1848 who lived in a
> house only.
> THOMAS KENNY bapt. 5th AUGUST 1794 SP: THOMAS and ELIZABETH KINSELLA.
> son of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and ANN BREEN.
> This Thomas Kenny was missing from the family farm in 1827 and I suspect
> it is the same THOMAS KENNY who was at MOTABOWER on ROCHE family farm as a
> shoemaker before 1839. I think even though this THOMAS KENNY was named as
> a LIFE in the LEASE of 1808
> he actually went to his second brother RICHARD KENNY and his age was wrong
> in 1808 as well.
> SALLY KENNY married THOMAS BALF and this THOMAS BALF was found with these
> KENNYS in 1839. SALLY was age 28.They had 3 daughters. He was 36 .Their
> tenant living with them was MICHAEL HUSSEY aged 54 in 1839. Also living
> with BALFS was a widow aged 80 and I suspect that this is ANNE BREEN KENNY
> widow of BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and this ANNE KENNY was aged 57 in
> 1827. Obviously her age is wrong in 1839 as she would have been 69-70 not
> 80. MARY BALF was bapt. 5th SEPT. 1832 dau of TOM BALF and SALLY KENNY of
> KENNYSTOWN. sp: TOM KENNY and MARY BALF.
> This SPONSOR maybe the same THOMAS KENNY at MOTABOWER as he did not live
> at KILCAVAN in 1827 or 1839. When he was named in 1839 THOMAS KENNY gave
> his age as 40 but he was actually 45 and married to a very much younger
> woman and perhaps this may have given rise to problems with his family. The
> FAMILY FARM is all important in those areas. It could be of course that he
> just had no interest in farming.
> So I think its fairly definite that THOMAS KENNY at MOTABOWER in 1839 is
> of this family.
> O'MARA RESEARCH
> You have have found the right JAMES MARA at URELANDS.
> JAMES MARA was at URELANDS in 1827 aged 33 with his wife aged 30
> He was a LABOURER and had 4 acres. In 1827 they had 3 sons and 1 dau but
> in 1839 they had 8 SONS and 1 daughter. He was a HERD in 1839. So all
> those sons of JAMES MARA you mentioned are obviously living with him in
> These MARA were undertenants to DOWSE FAMILY who had 250 acres.Also living
> on the same plots as JAMES MARA was WILLIAM MARA aged 64 in 1827 with his
> wife aed 66. They had 2 acres with 1 son and 1 dau living with them in
> 1827. They were gone by 1839.
> I think WILLIAM MARA brother of JAMES MARA was probably living with his
> father in 1827
> while JAMES MARA the brother was on a small plot in the same area.
> Also on these plots was JAMES KENNY aged 40 in 1827 with his wife aged 30.
> He was a labourer as was JAMES MARA. JAMES KENNY had 1 son and 1 dau. with
> him in 1827. He actually had 5 sons and 2 daughters with him in 1839.
> All of the MARAs and also JAMES KENNY were gone by 1848.
> The TITHE APPLOTMENTS of 1833-4 give me a better idea.
> JAMES MARA and JAMES KENNY were actually living in SPRINGFIELD part of
> JAMES MARA had 6 acres 3 rod 2 perch and JAMES KENNY had 3 acres 38 perch.
> WILLIAM MARA was gone.THOMAS KAVANAGH was also here on 4 acres 3 rod 17
> Others named at SPRINGFIELD part of URELANDS was PATRICK and MARY BEAHAN,
> JOHN SUMMERS, THOMAS BYRNE, MICHAEL CONNORS, DAVID WILLIAMS and PATRICK
> URELANDS is not an official townland name and in the TITHES it states
> URELANDS alias NEWRY.This means the area was covered by RC
> CLONEGAL/MOYACOMB PARISH register and not TOMCORK.
> Like yourself I found two children of JAMES MARA :
> JAMES MARA and CATHERINE DOYLE ( not MURPHY)
> MARY MARA you have.
> CHARLES MURPHY and MESS WHELAN went sponsor.
> PATRICK MARA bapt. 3rd JUNE 1838
> sp: PATRICK and MARY CONNORS.
> of NEWRY TOWNLAND.
> So of the 8 sons and 1 dau only one son and one daughter surived in the
> record.The rest are too early pre. 1833 though I know you have MICHAEL
> MARA born 1837 and TIMOTHY 1835 but I could not find them. It maybe the
> transcriber of the CLONEGAL register missed them.
> WILLIAM MARA probably married into one of the following RONAN families:
> All of those named were married and having children c. 1830s at CLONEGAL:
> KILBRIDE :PATRICK
> BALLINASTRAW : GREG and JAMES
> DRUMDERRY : JAMES
> BALLYSHONOGUE : THOMAS
> CRAAN : PATRICK
> BALLANAKEENAN : MICHAEL
> Also at URELANDS alias NEWRY in 1833-4 were PETER, EDWARD and JOHN SHANNON
> and also a THOMAS KENNY on 3 acres 10 perch.This is a diffeent section
> from SPRINGFIELD part of URELANDS.
> KENNY RESEARCH :
> ANNE and BARTLE KENNY twins of
> JAMES KENNY and BIDDY GREEN bapt. 3rd DEC. 1823
> sp: LAURENCE SUTHERN, MARY BYRNE, MICHAEL and MARY BYRNE.
> This JAMES KENNY and BIDDY GREEN also had a dau CECILIA KENNY bapt. 31st
> JAN. 1826 sp: RICHARD and ROSEY KENNY but the location then was CUMMER.
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY and NANCY or ANNE FARRELL
> Their children:
> JOHN KENNY bapt. 24th OCT. 1819
> sp:FRANK CONNER and JANE KEHOE.
> DOLLY KENNY bapt. 18th MARCH 1824
> sp: PHILIP FURLONG and CATHERINE BYRNE
> CATHERINE KENNY bapt. 10th SEPT. 1826
> sp: ART ROURKE ( who was married to SALLY KENNY) and
> ANNE KENNY bapt. 17th DEC. 1830
> sp: NED KEHOE and MARY KENNY
> BARTH KENNY son of
> BARTH KENNY and ELIZA MURPHY
> bapt. 4th MARCH 1822
> sp: PATRICK and NELLY CARROLL
> CATHERINE BYRNE bapt. 3rd or 5th NOV. 1831 dau of
> MICHAEL BYRNE and MARY KENNY.
> Sp: MARTIN KENNY and BID TAYLOR. LOCATION : KILCAVAN.
> KENNYS in TOMACORK:
> MARTIN KENNY aged 48 in 1848 with his wife aged 48.
> They had a HOUSE and KITCHEN GARDEN and 4 sons and 2 dau.lived with them.
> He was a labourer.In 1850 they had 4 sons and 2 dau. Living beside them in
> 1850 was MICHAEL KAVANAGH aged 54 with wife aged 76. He also was a
> labourer with house and kitchen garden.
> TOMCORK RC PARISH REGISTER
> MARTIN KENNY and CATHERINE TOOLE
> PATRICK KENNY bapt. 3rd NOV. 1825
> sp: MILES and CATHERINE KENNY
>MARY KENNY bapt. 24th JUNE 1828
> sp: JAMES BYRNE and CATHERINE DOYLE
> DES KENNY bapt. 3rd JUNE 1831
> sp: ANDY LEARY and BRIDE SUMMERS
> I could not find any BARTHOLOMEW KENNY born to this couple.
> The emigration lists for this family are very mixed up. I think they were
> adding people not directly related to them i.e nieces, nephews, etc.
> PHILIP KENNY and ELLEN KENNY
> Were living at PAULSTOWN or POUKSTOWN ??
> when they married 30th JAN. 1823 wit : MARY KENNY and MARY COGGE.
> BARTLOMEW KENNY bapt. 27th SEPT. 1828
> sp: JOHN SINNOTT and MOLLY NEAL.
> THOMAS KENNY bapt. 24th OCT. 1841
> sp: JOHN KEALY and MARY DEEGAN.
> MARY KENNY bapt. 30th MARCH 1836
> sp: CHARLES and CATHERINE KENNY
> JAMES KENNY and MARY BYRNE
> Married 1st AUGUST ? 1836
> wit : MATT and MARY BYRNE
> MARY KENNY bapt. 11th JULY 1842
> sp: BARTLEY and BRIDGET KENNY
> FROM : JOHN, DUBLIN
> Here is the 2nd report.
> PATRICK MARA is the only one bapt. 3rd JUNE 1838. No JOHN MARA.
> ELLEN KENNY of KILCAVAN aged 46 along with her children ANNE, BAT, MARY
> and THOMAS did leave Ireland on the INDIA ship in 1850 according to MS.
> 4975.She was the widow of PHILIP KENNY.
> MARTIN KENNY aged 52 along with four of his children DENIS, OWEN,
> CATHERINE and JOHN left on the DUNBRODY in 1853 according to Ms. 4975.
> I have more on this MARTIN KENNY next.
> MARTIN KENNY maried 14th FEB. 1821 to CATHERINE TOOLE
> wit : CATHERINE WALSH and MARY KENNY
> Known children:
> BIDDY KENNY bapt. 21st DEC. 1822
> sp: MILES and MARGO KENNY
> PATRICK KENNY bapt. 3rd NOV. 1825
> sp: MILES and CATHERINE KENNY
> MARY KENNY bapt. 24th JUNE 1828
> sp: JAMES BYRNE and CATHERINE DOYLE
> DENIS KENNY bapt. 3rd JUNE 1831
> EUGENE alias OWEN KENNY bapt. 27th SEPT. 1833
> sp: JOHN MAHIR and MARY DOYLE
> CATHERINE KENNY bapt. 29th APRIL 1839
> sp: PATRICK and CATHERINE CARROLL
> JOHN KENNY bapt. 12th OCT. 1842
> sp: BATT ENNESY ( HENNESSEY) and CATHERINE FOX
> WILLIAM KENNY named on the 1847 list is probably his nephew rather than
> his son and was probably trying to sneak him along.
> WILLIAM KENNY bapt. 29th MAY 1832 son of PATRICK and BETTY KENNY of
> sp: JAMES GRAINGER and CATHERINE FLEMING.
> I now suspect that CATHERINE KENNY along with her other children namely
> PATRICK, BIDDY and MARY KENNY probably stayed behind and its possible that
> CATHERINE KENNY aged 73 who is buried a CARNEW 19th JUNE 1878 is MARTIN
> KENNYS wife.
> WILLIAM KENNY was probably spotted as not being a child of MARTIN and
> CATHERINE KENNY and nothing more is known about him.
> MARTIN KENNY was on a PENSION before he left amounting to £2 (per
> annum)and he paid 5 shillings for his cabin (not sure when or how often)
> .He was to get an extra allowance when he first applied in 1847.
> For JOE KENNY:
> I have discovered that BARTHOLOMEW KENNY was dead by 1845 and replaced by
> RICHARD KENNY on 19 acres 1rod.It states on Pos. 8565 that in 1825
> BARTHOLOMEW had the lease in his name from that date but the lease was
> dropped in 1844. MAURICE KENNY on 13 acres 1 rod 39 perch and RICHARD KENNY
> (junior or senior)? on 37 acres 10 perch nearby and none of it was in
> lease.In 1850 they all had massive rent arrears.
> Its a bit peculiar that BARTHOLOMEW KENNY would have his son in 1794 and
> name him in a lease as a LIFE in 1808 as aged 6?? This must be a
> mistake.If THOMAS KENNY of 1794 had died then the eldest son would have
> been RICHARD KENNY in 1808 and not THOMAS KENNY. I suspect THOMAS KENNY
> was alive in 1825 but the property went to RICHARD but not in lease.THOMAS
> KENNY at MOTYBOWER must be much older than indicated. I think this is
> probably why its hard to place him. His age is completely wrong.It could
> be of course that THOMAS of 1794 died and THOMAS of 1802 was his
> brother.But if that was the case he would be a THIRD SON and hardly likely
> to be named as a LIFE in a lease before his two older brothers.
> Also take note that MOTYBOWER in 1845 had only 34 acres IN LEASE and all
> the ROCHE and CONNORS were on land MOSTLY NOT IN LEASE. In fact 158 acres
> was not in lease.
> So THOMAS KENNY who was a shoemaker and labourer on these farms was not
> even an UNDERTENANT as all the CONNORS and ROCHE were themselves
> UNDERTENANTS to the FITZWILLIAM ESTATE. Normally if you had a LEASE you
> were HEADTENANT.
> I searched for any further children of BARTH KENNY and MURPHY but no
> marriage or other children.I suspect that that this may be an illegitimate
> birth and the father being BARTH.KENNY who was married to ANNE FARRELL.The
> priests in this parish did not properly mark ILLEGITIMATES of which there
> were always plenty in IRISH RC records of the time.
> BATT KENNY of RICHARD KENNY and MARY CAHILL (COIL)
> bapt. 25th AUGUST 1839
> sp: TOM CAHILL and ANN BOLGER
> of KENNYSTOWN.
> PHILIP KENNY bapt. 29th MARCH 1846 the son of PHILIP KENNY and ELLEN KENNY
> sp: ANDY BLAKE and MARY RUSSELL
> of KENNYSTOWN.
> There is no further children for this couple and I think she emigrated
> with only four children anyway.
> JAMES MARA in 1846 had 4 plots of ground just across the road from
> SPRINGFIELD HOUSE. The turn off to CLONEGAL is just to the right of these
> plotsand opposite SPRINGFIELD. On the corner was JAMES KELLY on plot 135
> and across the road from JAMES MARA was PLOT 148 (with HOUSE) belonging to
> PATRICK BEHAN. As there was no house on Plots 131 to 134 JAMES MARA must
> have lived in that house. But he was a HERD so who knows. The only other
> house he could have lived in was up the road at JAMES BEHANS house.
> 131= 3 rod 28 perch
> 132= 2 acres 1 rod 1 perch
> 133= 2 acres 38 perch
> 134= 3 rod 5 perch
> Not in lease.
> There is a loose page at back of MS. 4975.I always thought it had the name
> of ship and date 1853 but reading it again it looks like
> SUPPLIMENTAL.Maybe not name of ship but just a supplimental emigration
> list.Anyway, BARTHOLOMEW KENNY of TOMACORK is named on this list along
> with 31 others. Hard to know what it means or if they all ever went.
> John, Dublin.
-------- Original Message -----
To: Anne Burgess
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 11:57 AM
> Hi ANNE
> FROM : JOHN, DUBLIN
> 3rd report
> Forget about thsoe photos if not needed but they can be collected at
> www.yousendit.com if required.
> I checked the 1827 and 1839 RENTALS ( everyname) and nobody by the name of
> HUSSEY found other than that MICHAEL HUSSEY on THOMAS BALFS farm.Unless he
> came in from WEXFORD its a mystery who he is.MICHAEL HANDRICK is
> definitely named at KILCAVAN in 1839 but just no details. MICHAEL HUSSEY
> and his wife's ages are out by considerable amount of years if MICHAEL
> HUSSEY was MICHAEL HANDRICK. HUSSEY is 6 years older and his wife 9 years
> older than MICHAEL HANDRICK would be in 1839.No children were given for
> HUSSEYS in 1839. But because HUSSEY families dont excist in KILCAVAN in
> 1827 or 1839 or 1848 and 1850 we have to conclude that perhaps MICHAEL
> HANDRICK did move in with THOMAS BALF in 1839 but the agent of FITZWILLIAM
> got it completely wrong or else BALF was using an ALIAS for MICHAEL
> HANDRICK so he could reside with him.MICHAEL HANDRICK was a BROGUEMAKER in
> 1827 and not really a farmer.
> I decided to do a detailed study again on these KENNYs, etc, at KILCAVAN
> so you can make sense of them. Let JOE KENNY know the following :
> RICHARD KENNY who I think is brother of THOMAS KENNY had his aged given
> differently in 3 cases which would make him born 1795, 1798 and 1803. We
> know he was born in 1795. This is exactly what happened to THOMAS
> KENNY.His age was given variously at 1799 to 1803 but we know he was born
> I will give the 5 plots that were occupied by KENNYS at KILKAVAN AS GIVEN
> WITH AGES AND ACRES AND CHILDREN, ETC. :
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 19 ACRES 1 ROD
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 49/42, 19 ACRES, 3 SONS 4 DAU , FARMER.
> PATRICK MULLERY 29/27, 3 DAU, LABOURER.
> ELIZABETH KENNY 59 YEARS, 2 ROD.
> JOHN KENNY 46 YEARS, LABOURER.
> JAMES CARNEY, 26/40, 1 SONS 3 DAU, LABOURER.
> JOHN KENNY WENT FROM HERE BY 1839 BUT FOUND IN KICAVAN 1839 UNDER MICHAEL
> BYRNE. JOHN KENNY 55/36,1 DAU, LABOURER.
> HE IS THEN FOUND UNDER WILLIAM MURPHY IN 1848. JOHN KENNY 68/50, 1 SON 1
> DAU., LABOURER.ALSO THERE IN 1850.I THINK THIS JOHN KENNY IS BROTHER OF
> ELIZABETH AND BARTHOLOMEW KENNY ON THIS PLOT ( NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE
> OTHER BARTHOLOMEW).
> 1839 ( SAME PLOT AS ABOVE):
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 19 ACRES 1 ROD.
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 52/50 ON 19 ACRES., 3 SONS 4 DAU, ONE MALE SERVANT.
> FARMER AND QUARRYMAN.
> JAMES BRENNAN 36/30, 1 SON 3 DAU, LABOURER.
> ELIZABETH KENNY 68 YEARS, A MAID.
> 2ND plot:
> JAMES AND BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 34 ACRES 10 PERCH.
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY 60/57, 4 ACRES, 3 SONS AND 3 DAU, A MASON.
> RICHARD KENNY, 32/20, 11 ACRES, LABOURER AND FARMER.
> THOMAS KENNY 58/60, 11 ACRES, 2 DAU, FARMER.
> PHILIP KENNY, 24/22, 4 ACRES, 2 DAU., LABOURER.
> JAMES DOYLE 36/40, LABOURER ON 3 ACRES 1 ROD.
> RICHARD KENNY 34 ACRES 10 PERCH.
> RICHARD KENNY 36/24, 1 SON, 2 FEMALE AND 1 MALE SERVANTS. 17 ACRES 1 ROD.
> PHILIP KENNY, 34/32, 1 SON 3 DAU, LABOURER ON 5 ACRES 3 ROD.
> THOMAS BALF, 36/28, 3 DAU, 11 ACRES 2 ROD, 1 MALE SERVANT. ONE WIDOW AGED
> MICHAEL HUSSEY, 54/50, "TENANT TO T. BALF".
> RICHARD KENNY SENIOR 34 ACRES 10 PERCH.
> RICHARD KENNY 50/26, 2 SONS 1 DAU, 1 MALE SERVANT, 28 ACRES 1 ROD 10
> ELLEN KENNY WIDOW, 40 YEARS, 5 ACRES 3 ROD, 3 SONS 2 DAU.
> ELLEN KENNY SENIOR, 56 YEARS, HOUSE ONLY.ONE RELATIVE LIVING WITH HER.
> RICHARD EKNNY JUNIOR 30 YEARS.
> 40 ACRES 3 ROD 34 PERCH. 4 RELATIVES.
> ARTHUR BOURKE 44/32, 1 SON 2 DAU, HOUSE AND KITCHEN GARDEN.LABOURER.
> RICHARD KENNY JUNIOR, 3 SONS 2 DAU. 38 ACRES 2 ROD 5 PERCH.
> BUILDINGS IN BAD REPAIR.
> RICHARD KENNY SENIOR REPS. 34 ACRES 10 PERCH.
> 3RD PLOT
> EDWARD KAVANGH AND JAMES MURPHY 26 ACRES 1 ROD 22 PERCH.
> EDWARD KAVANAGH 50/40, 4 SONS 3 DAU, FARMER ON 12 ACRES 3 ROD 10 PERCH
> MARGARET KAVANAGH AGED 80
> BARTHOLOMEW KENNY ON 13 ACRES 12 PERCH FARMER "DOES NOT RESIDE IN THIS,
> EDWARD KAVANAGH AND BARTHOLOMEW KENNY
> 26 ACRES 1 ROD 22 PERCH.
> NOBODY LIVING IN THIS SECTION IN 1839.PROBABLY USED AS FARM.
> HOUSES PROBABLY THROWN DOWN.
> 4TH PLOT
> PHILIP KENNY HOW BALF 50 ACRES
> EDWARD BALF 54/52, 37 ACRES, 2 SONS (BUT BLOB OF INK ON THIS), FARMER.
> MICHAEL HANDRICK 36/30, 12 ACRES, 3 DAU, BROGUEMAKER.
> MARY BALF WIDOW, 50 YEARS, 3 SONS 3 DAU.
> WIDOW KENNY, 1 ACRE, 57 YEARS, 1 DAU.
> JAMES SUMMERS, 35/27, LABOURER.
> KENNY NOW BALF 50 ACRES.
> EDWARD BALF (NO DETAILS)
> MICHAEL HANDRICK ( NO DETAILS)
> WIDOW KENNY 2 ROD, 70 YEARS, 1 DAU.
> THOMAS BALF 30/26, 11 ACRES, 3 DAU, FARMER.
> 5TH PLOT
> PATRICK KENNY NOW WILKIS? 13 ACRES 1 ROD 39 PERCH.
> MAURICE KENNY 36/22, 13 ACRES 1 ROD 39 PERCH.
> MAURICE KENNY 50/30, 4 SONS 1 DAU, 13 ACRES 1 ROD 39 PERCH.
> ELLEN KENNY WIDOW, 33 YEARS, 4 SONS 1 DAU, 13 ACRES 1 ROD 39 PERCH.
> 6TH PLOT
> PATRICK SHANNON 20 ACRES 1 ROD 31 PERCH
> BRIDGET SHANNON WIDOW 20 ACRES 1 ROD 31 PERCH., 60 YEARS. 2 DAU.
> SHANNON NOW JAMES TOMKINS 20 ACRES 1 ROD 31 PERCH.
> JAMES TOMKINS 46/30, 1 SON 1 DAU.
> JAMES TOMKINS 20 ACRES 1 ROD 31 PERCH.
> 60/35, 1 SON.
> JAMES TOMKINS 62/40, 1 SONS 1 DAU.
> I know from researching the ROACH family that there was an EDWARD KENNY
> and son EDWARD EKNNY in CARNEW. EDWARD KENNY Senior was married to a
> RATHWELL.They were protestants.
> I just noticed in 1848 CARNEW RENTALS the following :
> EDWARD KENNY 48/31, house and yard. 2 sons 1 dau. labourer. roomkeepers.
> ELIZABETH KENNY widow 61 years, 3 sons 1 dau, lodgers.
> CATHERINE KENNY wiodw, 40 years, 3 sons.lodgers.
> So this CATHERINE KENNY is the one who was buried in CARNEW.-------------------------------------------------------
Before the 1790s those protestant landlords and their protectant licks were given leases but the catholics were still refused leases under the PENAL LAWS that lasted from WILLIAM of ORANGE 1700 to about 1790s. For that reason KENNYS in KILCAVAN part of which became KENNSYTOWN would have been undertenants paying rent.Until that is those protestant HEAD TENANTS died out and then Fitzwilliam spread out the land amongst their catholic undertenants like Kennys and others.I think they lived in mud cabins and other such thatched buildings.
A protestnat called HUME did a survey of the old ROCKINGHAM estate in around 1733-48 (no definte date )which became the Fitzwilliam estate later (see MSS in NLI) and the HEAD TENANTS and UDNERTENANTS names were given. I think I found MOGUE KENNY at KILCAVAN on that list. There would be one or two more generations before you reach another KENNY name in same area c. 1808.
The KENNYS like the O'Neills named below are probably resident in the area for many hundreds of years but the IRISH never went for land titles.The protestant HEAD TENANTS in FITZWILLIAM estate spread their ploits amongst thousands of IRISH CATHOLICS and that way they got around the law. In other words nether the catholics or protestants owned the land but this way they got around the PENAL LAWS.
Maybe KENNYS can be found in this below but I only extracted O'Neills.I just noticed one O'Neill in PARKMORE ?
A printed copy exists of The Hearth Money Roll for County Wicklow dated 1669.
(Ms.4909 National Archives ,Bishop street).
It shows that there were O Neills in Co.Wicklow area in 1669 (though they are listed with various strange variants).They were probably O Neills of Magh da chonn who moved north out of their territory.
The locations are all in Co.Wicklow but some would be hard to locate now but Co.Wicklow locals would of course know where they are.
Owen Neile of Ballatuskin
Dennis Neyle of Killana Canoge
Bryan Neal of Parkmore
John Neyle of The Downe
Byrne O Neill of Money Meene i.e
Bryan O Neill of Moneymeen which is a townland situated north of Aughrim , beside the townland of Ballyshane.
Patrick O Neyle of Dirrie Lasaragh Parish (Seven Churches and Lug Duffe) i.e Patrick O Neill of Lug Duff and Sevenchurches townlands .Sevenchurches is west of Glenadalough and Lug Duff is just south west of Glendalough.
Bryan O Neyel of Baltinaen
Patrick Neyle of Wicklow town
Derby Neil of Gormonstowne
Isabell Neyle of Ballindale
John O Neyle of Ballydonnell
Michael Neile of Ballynasilloge.Parish of Killahurhar William Neyle of Arklow town Edmund O Neile of Askakeagh (Preban Parish) i.e Edmund O Neill of Askakeagh which is a townland to the west of Preban townland. South West Wicklow.
Edmund O Neile and
Derby O Neile of Ballineglaun i.e
Edmund and Darby O Neill of Ballinglen, which is a townland between Preban and Askakeagh townlands.
Owen O Neile of Farney
Ann O Neyle of Coolebane (Kilpipe Parish) i.e Ann O Neill of Coolbawn ,situated south of Kilpipe townland.
Roger Neyle of Wicklow (Parish of Kilmartin) Con O Neyle of Roundwood.
John Neyle of Kilquade
From : JOHN O'NEILL
) You wrote: </o:p>
MARY bapt. 17th Feb. 1820 the dau. of </o:p> PATRICK KENNY and BETTY KENNY </o:p>
sp: PATRICK KENNY and Peggy Doyle of KENNYSTOWN </o:p> </o:p> Does this mean _of Kennystown_ that Mary, Patrick and Betty are of KT or the sponsor, Patrick and Peggy are of Kt? </o:p> </o:p>
1. This means that PATRICK and BETTY KENNY lived in KENNYSTOWN and does not refer to the sponsors location.
2) You wrote: </o:p>
All of the KENNYS and others got their leases in 1808 and had nothing before then on lease. The earliest KENNY I can see is a MOEG or MOAG or MORG KENNY (inky blot on third letter: probably short for MORGAN KENNY) with a wife and 3 daughters an undertentenant of Mr. WATERHOUSE c. 1728-33. So I think the Kennys who eventually gathered in KENNYSTOWN part of KILCAVAN are all probably descended from this MORG. KENNY. He had 3 daughters in c. 1728-33 but probably had sons after that date. MS 6054. </o:p> </o:p> </o:p> How did you see he had daughters in 1728-33 if they weren_t there until 1808? </o:p> </o:p>
2. I think you are confused here. MORG/MORGAN KENNY was an adult in 1728-33 with 3 daughters alive at that time. The KENNYS who got leases may be DESCENDED from him but the KENNYS who got leases in 1808 are different to this MORG who would have been well dead by 1808.
3) You wrote: </o:p>
In the LIFE of ROBERT ROCHE 1802 youngest son of ROBERT ROCHE c. pre 1785 of MOTYBOWER, Co.Wexford,now 6 years old. </o:p> One of these Kenny_s daughters, must have married Robert Roche, Jr. </o:p> This shows a relationship between ROCHE of MOTYBOWER and the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN. Later in 1839 we find THOMAS KENNY living with this same ROCHE/ROACH family. So perhaps there is a family relationship or something between them ? Ms. 6030 ? </o:p> How did you assess that a Kenny daughter married a Roche, of Motabower? </o:p> </o:p>
This is all I can find below in regard to guess work on ROCHE/KENNY connection.
As ROBERT ROCHE JUNIOR son of ROBERT senior was named as LIFE in LEASE of 1808 involving these KENNYS named below it could be one of their daughters married a ROCHE.
But no proof. The three daughters of MORG KENNY would have been children in 1728-33 so no hope they would be of an age to marry anyone born pre. 1785 with a son born in 1802.
PHILIP, HENRY and WILLIAM KENNY ( All brothers. Called brothers in Ms. 6030 dated 1811-1813) 26th August 1808 All of KILCAVAN farmers 50 acres 2 rod 37 perch.
Late in lease to KEMPSTON and HUME.
In the LIFE of ROBERT ROCHE youngest son of ROBERT ROCHE of MOTYBOWER, Co.Wexford,now 6 years old. (in MS.6030 dated 1811-1813 it states opposit the ROCHE names =" Cestu Que Nic Dead").
#57 residence and #38 to plant 400 forest and 80 apple trees. Liberty to copice 5 acres.
(note that this is the relationship I mentioned between ROCHE of MOTYBOWER and the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN and later in 1839 we find THOMAS KENNY living with this same ROCHE/ROACH family. So perhaps there is a family relationship or something between them ?This is the only proof I can find, other than that below, that may link the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN to your THOMAS KENNY other than the same first name usage).
Hi JOE 12/28/2006
I read your assessment and as you now know MORG or MORGAN KENNY was active adult in 1728-33 and well dead by 1808.
He had 3 daughters in this period 1730s but he may have had sons after this period. So possible that JAMES KENNY may be his son and that JAMES may have had the 4 sons ?It was the definite 3 brothers and possibly a fourth brother who came into land leases in 1808. ROCHE was also named as a LIFE in 1808 LEASE for DORAN so its likely that ROCHE family never intermarried with KENNY or DORAN. That was only a guess. I think your THOMAS KENNY was a very poor agricultural labourer who lived on one farm and then another as a helper. After seeing how close MOTABOWER and KENNYSTOWN are I conclude really that just a quick walk over both would span them. For that reason I think your THOMAS is related to the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN but either a son not welcome at the KENNY farms or just a younger son with no hope of inheriting or working at the KENNY farms.It would be hard to know to whom he is related but I suppose one of the three brothers who got leases in 1808 may be his father( three are definitely brothers).
Hope this helps more. Having walked that lane from CARNEW RAOD all the way to KILCAVAN GAP and beyond that to TOMACORK CHURCH I can say that all those townlands are really small and no reason not to believe your THOMAS is of the KENNYS of KENNYSTOWN but he appears to have been left out of any land.But the state of that land and the poor farms I see there now makes me believe that perhaps all the KENNYS back then were VERY POOR.Its just that some had a LEASE and others did not.